Violence Doesn't Defeat Fascists, But Doing This Sure Does
This week on the show, we're joined by advertising industry legend, Bob Hoffman. Our host, Rosie Tran, also talks about how stories fight fascists. You don't want to miss this one.
Well, hello there,
I’m excited to share this week’s episode with you. While we cycle through the old episodes, there are a couple of gaps. We decided to fill those gaps with brand-new episodes of Stupid Sexy Privacy. That’s what you’re getting this week and next.
I don’t know if this is our final form, but it’s getting pretty close. I’m still kicking around ideas for different segments that Amanda or I might do. This week, you’ll get a clear idea of the direction we’re heading in.
We’re almost done with preproduction. I think there’s one more DuckDuckGo live read for me to write, and our new logo is ready to debut — human-made, unlike the temporary AI one we’ve used since July from Canva.
Whenever possible, please hire a human.
I hope you like the live reads. I went out of my way to make sure the content in them is useful. Yes, they are advertisements, but there are actual privacy tips within those ads, so don’t skip them. Only monsters would do that, and you’re not a monster, right?
After that, you should see Rosie out and about promoting the show — or at least that’s the plan. The media ecosystem, especially in the United States, is not healthy, but we’ll do our best.
We also have revised Episodes 5 and 6 coming your way soon. I mentioned those last week, but putting this new episode together took a lot of work. As soon as they’re ready, I’ll make a post, so keep an eye on your inbox.
(Once I’m done recording privacy tips for the posts already on this site, you’ll get an email twice a week from us: one on Tuesday and one on Friday. The Tuesday email will contain a new privacy tip. The Friday email will contain a new episode of Stupid Sexy Privacy all through 2026.
That’s still a little ways off, but I wanted to alert you now.
OK — I’ve talked too much. Let’s get to the show notes.
—BJ
P.S. If you’re reading this on the web, remember that full transcripts for all episodes are available only to email subscribers. It’s free to sign up, and if you do, you’ll also get a free PDF and MP3 copy of my new book — co-written with Stupid Sexy Privacy co-host Amanda King — as soon as they’re completed.
Show Notes
Stupid Sexy Privacy Show Notes For Season 1, Episode 7
Episode Title: Violence Doesn't Defeat Fascists, But Doing This Sure Does
Guest: Bob Hoffman, author of The Ad Contrarian, Adscam, and advertising industry legend. Bob gave an address on the dangers of advertisements that track you online and the tech company algorithms before the European Parliament, which you can read here.
Episode Summary: BJ Mendelson interviews Bob Hoffman and Rosie Tran presents tips to teach you the best peaceful, non-violent method to destroy fascism: Good Storytelling.
Key Points:
-In 2025, we’re still having a lot of the same conversations about data security, privacy, and anonymity. We believe this is because giving people just tactics, and then telling them to demand privacy legislation get passed, isn’t enough.
-Fascism succeeds by limiting your imagination, and limiting your ideas of what a better world can look like. Fortunately, all of us have the capacity to be creative.
-Our goal is to empower you to tell stories. This is because, while you can’t change people, nor should you ever argue with them, you can expose them to new information through storytelling.
-This week's episode offers five tips to help make you a better story teller. But here's the key: Your story, or your side of someone’s story, must be about change. And to be a bit more specific: While constructing the story, the moment (or moments) that brought you to that change.
-When looking for stories to tell, it’s easy to think that the big, ridiculous thing that happened in your life is the story to tell. Don’t do that. That big ridiculous thing might be fun and crazy, but it also may not be relatable. The smaller and more personal the story, the better. That’s because smaller, more personal stories increase the odds that the people listening have had a similar experience.
Want the exercises we recommend, as well as the rest of our storytelling tips? Subscribe to the newsletter — it's free — in order to access this week's show transcript.
Highlights From Part 1 of Our Interview with Advertising Legend, Bob Hoffman
- The ad industry is complacent and resistant to change: many practitioners accept surveillance practices as normal, so criticism has little impact and reform stalls.
- Modern marketing quality has declined: advertising has become largely ineffective, driven by short-tenure marketers and metrics gaming (bots, fraud), leading to bland, uninspired creative work.
- Tracking-based advertising is harmful: behavioral tracking enables detailed surveillance by ad tech companies, threatens individual privacy, undermines democratic institutions (by fueling polarization and extremist recommendations), and poses national security risks.
- Targeting isn't the problem—abusive methods are: contextual targeting using publicly available information is legitimate; the issue is deriving targets through invasive tracking and privacy abuses, which should be banned.
- Claimed effectiveness of microtargeting is overstated and fraudulent: evidence shows little real advantage over contextual ads, much online ad measurement is inflated or affected by fraud, and the marginal gains (if any) do not justify the societal costs.
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-Stop using SMS and WhatsApp, start using Signal.
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Stupid Sexy Privacy Episode 7 Transcript
(Note: The following transcript has been lightly edited for brevity, clarity, and length.)
DuckDuckGo Commercial:
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DuckDuckGo is built for data protection, not data collection. That's why it's used by millions to search and browse online. Don't wait. Download the free DuckDuckGo browser today visit DuckDuckGo.com or wherever you get your apps.
Show Introduction
Rosie Tran, Host: Welcome to another edition of Stupid Sexy Privacy.
Andrew VanVoorhis, co-producer: A podcast mini-series sponsored by our friends at DuckDuckGo.
Rosie: I'm your host, Rosie Tran. You may have seen me on ChimeTV's A Brand New Yay or on season two of Peacock's Comedy InvASIAN.
Andrew: And I'm your co-producer, Andrew VanVooris. With us, as always, is Bonzo the Snow Monkey.
Bonzo: Monkey Sound!
Rosie: I'm pretty sure that's not what a Japanese Macau sounds like.
Andrew: Oh, it's not. Not even close.
Rosie: Let's hope there aren't any zoologists listening.
Old Movie: "It's fairly simple. A lot of people think they're born better than others. I'm trying to prove it's the way you're raised that counts. But even a monkey brought up in the right surroundings can learn the meaning of decency and honesty."
Rosie: OK, I'm also pretty sure that's not what a snow monkey sounds like.
...
Over the course of this mini-series, we're going to offer you short, actionable tips to protect your data, your privacy, and yourself from fascists and weirdos.
These tips were sourced by our fearless leader —He really hates when we call him that — BJ Mendelson.
Episodes 1 through 24 were written a couple years ago, but since a lot of that advice is still relevant, we thought it would be worth sharing again for those who missed it.
Andrew: And if you have heard these episodes before, you should know we've gone back and updated a bunch of them, even adding some brand new interviews and privacy tips along the way.
Rosie: That's right. So before we get into today's episode, make sure you visit StupidSexyPrivacy.com and subscribe to our newsletter.
Andrew: This way you can get updates on the show and be the first to know when new episodes are released in 2026.
Rosie: And if you sign up for the newsletter, you'll also get a free PDF and MP3 copy of BJ and Amanda King's new book, How to Protect Yourself from Fascists and Weirdos.
All you have to do is visit stupidsexyprivacy.com.
Andrew: Stupidsexyprivacy.com.
Rosie: That's what I just said. Stupidsexyprivacy.com.
Andrew: I know, but repetition is key to success. You know what else is?
Rosie: What?
Old Movie Again: Oh, Bonzo. Eat your pablum like a good boy, and pretty soon you'll grow up to be a big, strong, handsome man just like your daddy. And you'll have Swedish pancake, too.
Rosie: I'm really glad this show isn't on YouTube because they'd pull it down like immediately.
Andrew: I know Google sucks.
Rosie: And on that note, let's get to today's privacy tip.
Privacy Tip: How To Tell Better Stories, Part 1
Rosie: This week and next week, we're going to be joined by advertising legend Bob Hoffman. Back in 2023, we interviewed Bob after he addressed the Parliament of the European Union. And you can read the transcript of Bob's address in this week's show notes.
Bob was there to discuss the use of tracking in the advertising industry. Like Corey Doctorow, and a few other guests from the original series, we went back and recorded a brand new interview with Bob.
That means everything you're going to hear from Bob Hoffman was reported in September of 2025.
SFX: Monkey sound!
Rosie: So as you know, our goal is to help 5% of Americans be 1% better at protecting themselves from fascist and weirdos. That means this week and next week, we're going to talk about storytelling.
You might be wondering what this has to do with privacy, and the answer is everything.
Because we need to get better at telling stories.
Especially when it comes to getting people to be more proactive about defending themselves. It's been over a decade since BJ's first book, Social Media is Bullshit, came out. And slightly less than a decade since his second book, Privacy and How We Get It Back, came out. Yet somehow, in 2025, we're still having a lot of the same conversations about data, security, privacy, and anonymity.
We believe this is because giving people just tactics and telling them to demand privacy legislation get passed isn't enough. Especially now, with much of the Earth's population under some form of authoritarian rule.
Remember, fascism is fueled by nostalgia for the past that never was. Fascists are telling you a story. They do this to make you think their dominance is inevitable, so you just accept it. Or by controlling your data and using it to push you in the direction of their story on platforms like Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube.
Fascism succeeds by limiting your imagination and limiting your ideas of what a better world can look like. Fortunately, all of us have the capacity to be creative. That's why we're going to take some time to talk about storytelling. Make sense?
Now, just a disclaimer. We're not advocating that you tell stories to diehard members of any fascist death cults. They're either going to find their way out of the bottle or they won't. Your primary mission as it relates to the diehards is to limit their ability to be harmful.
You can do this by denying them elected office and positions of authority in your community. Our goal here is to empower you to tell stories to the vast majority of Americans, the ones who haven't made up their minds or don't know that better options exist.
This is because while you can't change people, nor should you ever argue with them, you can help expose them to new information through storytelling.
That's how you grow a movement, not by force, but by meeting people where they are, listening to them carefully, and then persuading them with an honest, authentic story.
Like with any of the privacy tips we share, you won't succeed overnight. Change is slow and gradual, but you change hearts and minds in the same way you can complete a digital detox, slowly and with effort. So let's get to part one of our storytelling tips.
Storytelling Tips (Part 1!)
Rosie: Number one, your story or your side of someone's story must be about change. And to be a bit more specific, while constructing the story, the moment or moments that brought you to that change. Otherwise, you just have a funny antidote and that's fine. But here we're talking specifically about fighting fascists and weirdos.
So if you want a story that wins people over, it has to be about change. And it has to focus on the moment or moments that brought you to that change.
Number two, don't perform your story when you're telling it. Tell it like you're sharing it with your best friend. Stories build trust and help people imagine a better path forward, because how you make people feel is what matters. Stories are seeds that can be planted in the heart and grow there. The more natural you are in delivering your story, the better.
And the best way is to be natural and not force it.
So think of someone you love and trust and tell the story like you're telling it only to them.
Number three, the building blocks of a good story are all around you. Observe, listen, and as you can, write down one thing briefly at the end of each day that happened to you. It doesn't have to be a lot. It can be a fragment or just enough to help you remember what that thing was. Ideally, you do this every night before you go to bed.
All you gotta do is set a timer of five minutes and write it down using pen and paper. Over time, you'll start to notice patterns and recurring themes. You can use these as your building blocks to construct a story.
Number four. When looking for stories to tell, it's easy to think that the big ridiculous thing that happened in your life is the story to tell. Don't do that. That big ridiculous thing might be fun and crazy, but it also may not be relatable. The smaller and more personal the story, the better.
That's because smaller, more personal stories increase the odds that the people listening have had a similar experience. BJ can vouch for this because he's given presentations in front of large audiences, who spoke multiple languages, and they all laughed right when they were supposed to.
How? He kept the stories small and relatable.
SFX: Monkey Sound!
Rosie: Number five, we have another exercise that we're going to recommend. Some people call this exercise morning pages, but we don't care what you call it.
What we do care about is that you follow our digital detox advice of keeping the smartphone out of your bedroom. This way you can write about your day for five minutes before bed and do the second exercise with minimal interrupt.
For the second exercise, we want you to take 15 minutes after you wake up or as close to that as you can get and just write. Completely stream of consciousness with no stopping. Just keep going without censorship or punctuation. Nobody's going to see what you write about you.
And if you get jammed up, there are lots of writing prompts online you can use. But we recommend asking yourself about a random topic or question.
Questions like, why is Rush your favorite fan?
Or why does Geddy Lee sound like he's been kicked in the balls every morning for the last 50 years?
OK, maybe not those questions specifically, but we're very excited to hear Rush is going back on tour next year.
Ask yourself questions about things you like or enjoy, and then ask yourself why you like or enjoy them. This is always a good place to start.
Lastly, remember that these notes are just for you, don't share them with anyone. Revisit them throughout the month and see if you can find any good or useful ideas for a story, or spot patterns, and then document those useful ideas elsewhere.
Once you have, destroy your notes.
Before we go, while we recommend paper for both exercises, when you're ready to start typing your story, you'll want to use Standard Notes.
Standard Notes is an end-to-end encryption note taking app, one that works across multiple devices and is available for free.
You can also upgrade Standard Notes if you'd like additional features such as using it as a home for your two-factor authentication codes.
Now, let's get to part one of our interview with advertising legend, Bob Hopkins
Interview With Bob Hopkins
BJ Mendelson, co-producer, Stupid Sexy Privacy: Bob, would you like to take a moment just to introduce yourself to our audience?
Bob Hoffman: Yeah, I'm Bob. I was an advertising executive for a long time. Probably spent 40 years in the agency business and another 10 years or so writing and speaking about the agency business.
I had a blog for many years called The Ad Contrarian, and I recently have pretty much retired from thinking about advertising and marketing.
But I still have ... I kind of watch the industry with bemused detachment.
And so I try to keep up a little bit with it, although frankly, I'm pretty disgusted with it and a lot of my interest in the agency business has evaporated.
BJ: Yeah, I mean, with good reason, because I found, you know this, but for people listening, like I'm a long time fan of Bob's work at the AdContrarian and of your books and I found ... I think maybe you kind of ran into what I ran into with Social Media Is Bullshit, where you kept pointing out the problems and there was no change.
And I think that kind of wears on you. Is that right?
Bob: That's absolutely right. You know, I've been writing about some issues that I think are important for a long time. And sadly, nobody seems to care. I mean, you and I and a couple of dozen other people care about these things, but most of the people working in advertising and marketing ... It's become second nature to them that they're involved in spying on individuals and creating problems in society by doing so.
And after a while, you beat your head against the wall just so long before you have to say, okay, I've had enough.
BJ: Yeah. And so, what I want to do with this interview in particular was to kind of go over some of those points. Because this audience is a bit different from, I think, when you and I spoke, it was still more like ad and marketing people, but this is more people who know that there's a problem when it comes to the data collection and they're aware of what's going on and they kind of want to learn a bit more.
So, let me start with tracking. So, you've said in the past, and this is something that I think is really important, that advertising is vital to a free and open web. And I was just hoping you could kind of speak to that a little bit.
Bob: Advertising is annoying, but mostly it's silly and mostly it's not dangerous. Online advertising makes possible a lot of good things that we all enjoy and appreciate about the Web. It gives us free entertainment and free information, and it allows us to make friends with people we would otherwise never meet. But it has a very dangerous other side to it, and that is tracking. And tracking is the process by which advertisers and online website publishers and online media have the ability to know everywhere we go and everything we do and say on the web. And this is dangerous in several ways.
First, it's dangerous to individuals. The worst governments in history have been the ones that abused the privacy of its citizens by following them everywhere. Listening to their private conversations and compiling secret files on them. And today it's the marketing industry that's doing this. The KGB and the Gestapo and the Stasi could only dream of having the depth of information about citizens that Google, Facebook, Amazon, and other ad tech companies have.
Also, tracking is dangerous to the integrity of democratic institutions. You know, in recent years, we've seen a serious wedge driven into our political life. And there's a direct link between tracking by the online ad industry and the polarization of democratic societies. A study by a group of Facebook executives reported that almost two-thirds of people who joined extremist groups on Facebook were directed there by recommendations from Facebook's algorithm.
And where do these systems get the data that inform their algorithms? From tracking us.
And lastly, tracking is also a national security threat.
So, tracking is dangerous in so many ways. And sadly, we have not done anything about it. In fact, it keeps getting worse.
Advertising Break
BJ Mendelson: Hello everyone, this is BJ Mendelson and I am the writer and co-producer of Stupid Sexy Privacy. When I'm not working on the show, I'm usually yelling at my television because of the New York Mets.
I want to take a moment to tell you about a book I co-authored with Amanda King.
It's called How to Protect Yourself from Fascists and Weirdos, and the title tells you everything you need to know about what's inside. Thanks to our friends at DuckDuckGo, Amanda and I are releasing this book for free in early 2026. If you want a DRM-free PDF copy, you can have one.
If you want a DRM-free MP3 of your audiobook, you can have that too.
All you need to do is visit StupidSexyPrivacy.com and subscribe to our newsletter.
That website again is StupidSexyPrivacy.com and we'll send you both the PDF and the MP3 as soon as they're ready.
Now, I gotta get out of here before Bonzo shows up. He's been trying to sell me tickets to see the White Sox play the Rockies, and I don't have time to explain to him how interleague baseball is a sin against God. I've got a book to finish.
Back To The Interview ...
BJ: Right. And so I've seen a couple of conversations percolating that I wanted to ask to get your feedback on. The first is probably a bit more practical and it's coming from a lot of academics and people who work in the tech space and they basically said, you know, we should just ban micro targeting and tracking entirely. The thing that I've heard from other tech people is, well, we can't do that because these ads are so effective. And you've repeatedly said over the years that that's just not true.
So I'd love to hear a bit more about that.
Bob: First we have to understand about targeted advertising. All advertising is targeted. And that's why we don't see lipstick ads on football games and we don't see ads for Motor oil in Oprah's Magazine. Once again, aside from legal or discriminatory targeting, the problem isn't targeting per se. The problem is the method by which the targets are derived.
If the targets are derived from publicly available information, it's not a problem. But if targets are derived from tracking, from abusing privacy rights, then targeting is a problem.
So it's not targeting per se that's the problem. It's the use of abusive practices to derive targets that's the problem.
Now, you said academics. Can you repeat that question again?
BJ: Basically, like I think it was Shoshana Zuboff and Danielle Citron, who have basically said we should just ban targeted personalized advertising entirely.
Bob: Yeah. You can't just ban targeted advertising entirely. You have to understand that there are different kinds of targeting. Like I said, targeting derived from public records and stuff like that, it's the way it's always been and there's nothing wrong with it.
But targeting derived from abusive practices, abusing the privacy of individuals, that should be banned. And I agree with them on that point.
BJ: So the response that we typically hear from tech companies is, well, these targeted ads are so effective. They're wonderful, they're great, and WPP, should give us all of your money to spend on this, but you've repeatedly pointed out over the years that this is all rife with fraud.
So I was hoping you might be able to explain that a bit.
Bob: Sure. Yeah. There is a rumor that this kind of micro-targeting advertising is more effective than traditional, what we used to call contextual advertising. And for your listeners who don't know about this, so behavioral targeting is following people everywhere, see where they go, and target them there. Contextual advertising is you advertise where your target audience is likely to be, not by tracking them as individuals, but by knowing that golfers are likely to watch golf matches on TV.
And people who are interested in fishing are likely to go to fishing.com and you target them in that way.
So there's a rumor that that kind of targeting is much more effective, that behavioral targeting is much more effective than contextual targeting.
However, there's very little evidence that proves this.
There was one study that showed that in some cases behavioral targeting was about 4 % more effective than non behaviorally targeted advertising.
There is so much fraud in online advertising. According to the most recent research that I have seen, advertisers are losing about $100 billion a year or more to fraud. And no one knows for sure what that number really is. But this is what I have read from reliable research sources.
Also, let's assume for a minute that tracking-based advertising is much more effective than traditionally targeted advertising.
So what?
Is the convenience of some marketers more important than the privacy rights of citizens and the integrity of democratic institutions? I don't think so.
So even if there is a little advantage in this kind of targeting, it ain't worth it. It's not even close to worth it.
BJ: Yeah, you know, I've been on the inside of watching presentations to clients where people were talking about clicks and impressions and views, and I've kind of had to just hold back the laughter because how much of that is fake? And the answer is, I don't know.
Bob: It's mostly all. Both.
You know, marketing people love these reports they get about this many views and the CPMs and clicks. And it's substantially done by bots and by click farms and by all kinds of creepy and illegal methodology. But the marketing people love it because they can take it to the CEO and to the CFO and say, look, look, look at all the clicks we're getting and look at all the visitors we're getting to our website and look how low our CPMs are ...
For those who don't know, CPMs are cost per thousand. So they love it.
And the bosses, they don't know that this. Most of the marketing people know that this is mainly baloney, but they love it because it can prove, quote, it can prove that their advertising is effective, whereas it really usually isn't very effective. But you know, what's a marketing person's first aim? And that is to keep his or her job.
And so, you know, they love this stuff because they can wave it and say, look how good I'm doing.
BJ: Right. And you know, it's funny because the average turnover in most marketing professions is about two years.
Bob: Yeah. It's about, about 24 months for most chief marketing officers. And that's because after a while they get found out. But the new ones come in and try to do the same things.
Marketing has become not terribly effective. You know, it used to, marketing and advertising, when I first started in the industry, were very effective tools. They are not so effective anymore. You have a lot of people who don't know what they're doing. They think they know what they're doing. They think they know, but they don't. And the result of that is ineffectual marketing and terrible idiotic advertising.
It's so bad now, I can hardly look at it. I mean, have you seen an online ad that was anything but remarkably dull and nothing? There's nothing there. And it's .., for someone who grew up like me in the advertising business, it's very disheartening.
We've lost the story. We've lost the script.
I know it's being handled now by people who shouldn't be making advertising decisions, but it seems that nobody's willing to fight that fight. I don't know why.
DuckDuckGo Live Read Place Holder
(We're recording new ones for the Live Reads, so this one is temporary and will be swapped out shortly with the updated version.)
Rosie: Tired of being tracked online? DuckDuckGo could help. Tracking is a comprehensive program. Trackers lurk nearly everywhere online from websites, emails, and even apps in your phone. That means you need a multi-pronged solution. DuckDuckGo's all-in-one privacy app can be used as an everyday browser with private search, tracking, blocking, encryption, and now email protection built in. It's the free, easy button for online privacy. Download the app today. DuckDuckGo. Privacy simplified.
Show Outro
Rosie: This episode of Stupid Sexy Privacy was recorded in Hollywood, California. It was written by BJ Mendelson, produced by Andrew Van Voorhis, and hosted by me, Rosie Tran. And of course, our program is sponsored by our friends DuckDuckGo.
If you enjoy the show, I hope you'll take a moment to leave us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you may be listening. This won't take more than two minutes of your time, and leaving us a review will help other people find it.
We have a crazy goal of helping 5% of Americans get 1% better at protecting themselves from fascists and weirdos.
Your reviews can help us reach that goal, since leaving one makes our show easier to find.
So please take a moment to leave us a review and I'll see you right back here next Thursday at midnight.
Right after you watch my episode of comedy InVASIAN on Peacock, right?
Old Movie Clip: Bonzo, I wish that you'll have many more birthdays just like this one. With those you love and trust around you always to share your happiness. And I wish that you'll get a chance very soon to prove that being loved and looked after like a human being has made you feel like a human being. And that if love can do that to you, then it ought to be able to make some other human beings ... human beings.
