Howdy,

I'm going to keep this post super short. I'm currently writing the next OSINT column. So you'll be hearing a lot from me this week. And just a reminder that our sister podcast, Privacy Tips, will resume as soon as I wrap up working on the book.

What you're going to find below are the show notes for the Thursday, February 12th's episode that got delayed.

We previously talked about how storytelling can defeat fascism in Episode 7 and Episode 8. So if you want to know what actually changes people's minds, you should listen to both episodes. Because as you'll learn today, it ain't facts.

The quote and source for today's headline comes from our guest, Caitlin Dow, from the Center for Science in the Public Interest.

We had a great discussion about misinformation, disinformation, and how the wellness industry funds a lot of the people sharing all that bad information in the first place.

You don't want to miss it. Like all of the interviews we do, there's a lot to learn from each of them.

I'll see you later this week.

Hello. Farewell. Hello. Farewell.

-BJ

You can follow me here on Bluesky

Show Notes

Stupid Sexy Privacy Show Notes For Season 1, Episode 25

Episode Title: Facts Don't Change People's Minds, But This Does

Guests: Caitlin Dow, Center for Science in the Public Interest

Episode Summary: Everyone's talking about disinformation and misinformation, but nobody's talking about where it's funding comes from. Let's fix that.

Takeaways From Our Interview with Caitlin Dow

1. SLOW DOWN! If you're feeling anxious or angry, don't react online, disengage and do something else instead. If you want to share a story, make sure you've read it all the way to the end first, and then ask yourself, "Is this worth sharing?" Generally speaking, when you're using anything connected to the Internet, take a deep breath and slow down.
2. Facts don't change people's minds, but well told stories do. We talked about this in more detail in an earlier, episode, so go check it out if you missed it.
3. The Wellness Industry, like the Dietary Supplement Industry, is not well regulated. Its no coincidence that the Creator Economy took off around the same time the Wellness Industry did, because that's where much of the Creator Economy's money actually comes from. So be careful if you come across someone selling you supplements, and especially be careful of anyone who tells you not to get vaccinated, and is instead trying to sell you some weird shit instead.
4. Fascism depends on warping history in order to sell you it's narrative. So does the Wellness Industry and stuff like MAHA trying to tell you "Back then, things were better." It's not true. Don't fall for it. George Washington used to think large bones didn't belong to dinosaurs, but gigantic men.

Resources (NO Affiliate Links. This is what we use.)

Our Sponsor: DuckDuckGo <--Our Recommended Browser and VPN

Get Your Privacy Notebook: Get your Leuchtturm1917 notebook here.

-BitWarden.com (Password Manager: easier to use, costs money)

- KeepPassXC (Password Manager: free, harder to use, but more secure)

-Slnt Privacy Stickers for Phones and Laptops

-Slnt Faraday bag for your Stranger Danger phone.

-Mic-Lock Microphone Blockers

-Mic-Lock Camera Finder Pro

-BitDefender (best anti-virus for most people across most devices)

-Stop using SMS and WhatsApp, start using Signal.

-Use Element instead of Slack for group coordination

-Use StopGenAI's Guide to getting Generative AI out of your life.

--Use cash whenever possible. If you have to buy something online, try to use Privacy.com to shield your actual credit or debit card when making purchases online.

Get In Touch: You can contact us here

Want the full transcript for this week's episode?

Easy. All you gotta do is sign-up for our newsletter. If you do, you'll also get a .mp3 and .pdf of our new book, "How to Protect Yourself From Fascists & Weirdos" as soon as it's ready. It's free.

But if you'd like to comment on StupidSexyPrivacy.com posts, or if you just want to support our work, you can support us by becoming a paid subscriber. It's $2 per month or $24 for the year.

Stupid Sexy Privacy, Season 1, Episode 25 Full Transcript

DuckDuckGo Commercial #3

Announcer: Welcome back to the DuckDuckGo Privacy Challenge, where contestants get a chance to learn why millions use DuckDuckGo's free browser to search and browse online. Now for our first contestant, Julie. True or false? Google's Chrome protects your personal information from being tracked.

Julie: Hmm, I'm going to say ... true.

Announcer: Incorrect, Julie. If you use Google Search or their Chrome browser, your personal information has probably been exposed. Not just your searches, but things like your email, location, and even financial or medical information.

Julie: Wow, I had no idea.

Announcer: Second question. What browser can you switch to for better privacy protection?

Julie: Is it DuckDuckGo?

Announcer: That's correct. The DuckDuckGo browser keeps your personal information protected. Say goodbye to hackers, scammers, and the data-hungry companies. Download from DuckDuckGo.com or wherever you get your apps.

Stupid Sexy Privacy Intro

Rosie: Welcome to another edition of Stupid Sexy Privacy. 

Andrew: A podcast miniseries sponsored by our friends at DuckDuckGo. 

Rosie: I’m your host, Rosie Tran. 

You may have seen me on Rosie Tran Presents, which is now available on Amazon Prime.

Andrew: And I’m your co-producer, Andrew VanVoorhis. With us, as always, is Bonzo the Snow Monkey.

Bonzo: Monkey sound!

Rosie: I’m pretty sure that’s not what a Japanese Macaque sounds like.

Andrew: Oh it’s not. Not even close.

Rosie: Let’s hope there aren’t any zooologists listening.

Bonzo: Monkey Sound!

Rosie: Ok. I’m ALSO pretty sure that’s not what a Snow Monkey sounds like.

*Clear hers throat*

Rosie: Over the course of this miniseries, we’re going to offer you short, actionable tips to protect your data, your privacy, and yourself from fascists and weirdos.

These tips were sourced by our fearless leader — he really hates when we call him that — BJ Mendelson. 

Episodes 1 through 33 were written a couple of years ago. 

But since a lot of that advice is still relevant, we thought it would be worth sharing again for those who missed it.

Andrew: And if you have heard these episodes before, you should know we’ve gone back and updated a bunch of them.

Even adding some brand new interviews and privacy tips along the way.

Rosie: That’s right. So before we get into today’s episode, make sure you visit StupidSexyPrivacy.com and subscribe to our newsletter.

Andrew: This way you can get updates on the show, and be the first to know when new episodes are released in 2026.

Rosie: And if you sign-up for the newsletter, you’ll also get a free pdf and mp3 copy of BJ and Amanda King’s new book, “How to Protect Yourself From Fascists & Weirdos.” All you have to do is visit StupidSexyPrivacy.com

Andrew: StupidSexyPrivacy.com

Rosie: That’s what I just said. StupidSexyPrivacy.com

Andrew: I know, but repetition is the key to success. You know what else is?

Rosie: What?

Bonzo: Another, different, monkey sound!

Rosie: I’m really glad this show isn’t on YouTube, because they’d pull it down like, immediately.

Andrew: I know. Google sucks.

Rosie: And on that note, let’s get to today’s privacy tip!

This Week's Privacy Tip

Rosie Tran, host of Stupid Sexy Privacy: This week's privacy tip is a short but important one. We want you to set up a Google Alert for your name and any other handles you go by.

So, for example, BJ's actual name is Brandon Mendelson. But Brandon Mendelson is a mouthful, so we shortened it to BJ for TV and radio interviews. That means BJ has two Google Alerts set up, one for his actual name and one for his stage name. For our trans friends in particular, we want to stress the importance of setting up multiple Google Alerts to cover both your current name and your dead name.

But this is the tactic that works for everyone. You can set up an alert by visiting google.com slash alerts and entering your name. This is super important when you're dealing with fascists and weirdos who have targeted you for harassment. Something we will focus on more once we wrap up the medical portion of the show. These Google alerts will help you track what they're saying about you, as well as the day and date it was posted, as well as a link. All of which is important for documentation purposes. You can also use tools like hunch.ly to log and capture all instances of harassment.

Hunch.ly is also a terrific research tool for journalists. But for the purposes of our show, we're recommending it for people who are being stalked and harassed that need to document that harassment. Hunch.ly, in a very basic sense, logs everything that you browse on your computer. This way, you don't have to worry about taking screenshots and making sure you don't lose them. Related to Hunch.ly is a program called PageVault. As of this recording, PageVault is one of the few programs that if you use to record and document harassment can be admissible in a court of law.

So if you've gotten to the point where you're talking to lawyers about people stalking and harassing you online, you'll want to discuss the use of page bulk for documentation. We'll discuss how to document harassment by creeps and weirdos in the last few episodes of the show. But we're not quite at the end just yet. That's because BJ's audio got jacked up during his interview with Dr. Arthur Kaplan. We weren't kidding last week when we said BJ upset an ancient deity, although we're still not sure which one. BJ was mumbling something about a volcano, but I tuned him out because a rerun of NCIS New Orleans was about to come on.

Long story short, you're all getting an extra episode of the show. And here it is.

Interview with Caitlin Dow, Center For Science in the Public Interest

BJ: Hi. Caitlin, thank you so much for joining us on Stupid Sexy Privacy. Would you like to take a moment to introduce yourself?

Caitlin: Sure. So my name is Caitlin Dow. I am a nutrition scientist and a science communicator at the Center for Science in the Public Interest. And we are a consumer advocacy group. So we consider ourselves a health and nutrition watchdog group. And I write for our flagship publication, Nutrition Action. So I've been writing and really debunking a lot of health fads for about nine years at Nutrition Action.

BJ: Wow. Okay. So nine years that actually places you at the almost at the advent of the creator economy.

Caitlin: Yes. Yeah. I kind of came in right around that time.

BJ: And that's one of things we're going to talk about because I feel like in one of questions I was trying to get to the point where I feel like a lot of the creator economy is funded by wellness products and wellness supplements. Is that something you've seen in your work?

Caitlin: Yeah, it's almost insidious. You can't really separate the two at this point. The creator economy is largely funded, I think, by the wellness industry because it speaks to so many people. So many people are interested in wellness. And if you have really a disposable income. A lot of people are going to put it towards wellness. And there ... we've seen a few examples of ... companies in the wellness space, whether they're dietary supplements or some other product where the influencer that collaborates with that company gets a huge kickback. I'm talking like $13 per bottle of a supplement that's sold. It's huge. So companies wouldn't do that if it didn't work.

BJ: Right. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's why with us, uh, we have a, believe in the old school firewall between advertising and editorial, you know, so like we have duck, duck, go as a sponsor, but there is no, there is a complete firewall between us and that. Like they don't know who we're interviewing. They don't see our questions. They don't see our posts. It's just, I feel like that's gone away. And have you seen that? It sounds like as you're describing that, like if you are incentivized to sell these $13 bottles, then editorial is just out the window. You're just an advertising machine at that point.

Caitlin: That's the way it seems to me. I haven't done a super deep dive into trying to understand that fully because I'm usually so full on just fact checking a lot of this work that I don't fully understand how that economy exists, but it's clearly lucrative. And the line between company and individual has blurred so much that the the general user of social media can't necessarily see the difference between those two. And certainly what you're saying, too, with podcasts, I think we hear it on so many podcasts, the ... the advertisements, and that your favorite podcaster giving you the advertisement for a greens powder or what have you. And that's ... we know that that's an advertising tactic that works. It's a testimonial and that's very powerful.

BJ: Yeah. I mean, for us, we don't, we don't mention anything unless we actually physically use it. Yeah. people watching at home, you're not gonna see the video, but I have, for example, like a Titan security key, right? Which is one of the things that I actually use every morning to get onto my Google and Gmail account. And so that's the thing we recommend. And that's sort of our rule is if we don't physically touch the product and actually use it in some meaningful fashion, we never mention it. And that by the way is not a product placement, it's just ... We're talking about editorial and this blurring, and I feel like a lot of what we're going to talk about, that blurring creates danger.

So one of reasons why I was excited to speak with you is that in the original series, we talked with Dr. Nicole Prause, and she is a statistician and neuroscientist who studies sexual psychophysiology and health disinformation. And at the time that we talked to her in 2023, she was being like bombard by trolls, fascists and weirdos who were selling basically like erectile dysfunction supplements. And what she had said to us was, you basically everyone that was attacking her had some kind of financial incentive, and it usually related to a wellness product.

And so one of the things I heard you say, ah and just full disclosure for people, like I initially came across you during a Indivisible Truth Brigade webinar. So, you know, I'm a member and, you know, every time that they do those, I tune in. And you said that the wellness industry is three times bigger than the pharmaceutical industry. Is that right?

Caitlin: Yeah. So the global wellness industry, by last count, it was about $6.3 trillion. And that's roughly three times the size of the pharmaceutical industry. And so something that I've always found very curious is that the ire and rage that's directed at pharma and some of that is very well deserved, that the same level of distrust or skepticism isn't targeted at the wellness industry. And there's a lot of reasons for that. But that's always been really concerning to me as a nutrition scientist who has long been aware of the issues with the supplement industry and that they just fly right under the radar. And they shouldn't.

BJ: And so just to that point, it also sounds like the tech. So when I first wrote my book, Social Media's Bullshit, over a decade ago, one of the things that I pointed to was this revolving door between the FTC and Facebook and Google. And it sounds like that's also happening with the wellness industry. Is that right?

Caitlin: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, this regulatory revolving door to where people who work for, say, the FDA leave and they join maybe a dietary supplement trade group, that then lobbies the government for looser regulations. And so I think what happens there is that they might know that they're going to do that because they can make more money working in private industry than working for the government. So they're not going to work to enact stricter regulations on the industry while they're there because that doesn't help their future selves. And there's a lot of examples of that and just collusion, I think, too. If I remember correctly, Senator Orrin Hatch, who was really the architect of what was called the Dietary Supplement Health Education Act of 1994, or DSHEA, he really designed DSHEA and DSHEA is the reason that the dietary supplement industry is so deregulated. And I believe his son was then a lobbyist for the supplement industry.

BJ: Yep. That sounds about right. So speaking to how people get sucked in, or maybe the lack of critical thought that goes into these products ... you mentioned something called the wellness spiral. I was hoping you could tell us a little bit about what that is and how people fall into it?

Caitlin: Yeah, so the wellness spiral is something that I made up a term that I've made up and something that I've sort of been chewing on to try to make sense of how we get from wanting to follow a healthy diet to becoming anti -vaccine. And so I think people typically enter this spiral from a genuine interest in nutrition and health.

And someone once said to me that they see nutrition as the gateway into belief of more extreme health, miss and disinformation. And that makes a lot of sense to me just in my time studying nutrition. And so I think once you start down this path and it, it's really a combination of interest, some level of distrust of the establishment, especially the medical establishment, as well as a lack of science and media literacy. I think you need a combination of all of those things to really enter into the wellness spiral.

But once you sort of start down that path, first you're likely to start seeking more information. And in the age of social media, the algorithm is going to pick up on those interests. So this isn't, you know, the quaint days of just internet searching that used to exist. This is that you are being fed content. And so an initial question of 'should I be eating organic?' that could lean to lead to content about clean eating, which can lead to content about toxins, that seed oils are poison, et cetera. And so with that, I think you get this information fed to you saying that big food, the government, or just sort of this, "they" in quotes, are lying to you and trying to keep you sick. And so what you get are these messages of taking back your power, how you can only rely on yourself. There's a lot of individualism in this, that there are no reliable experts and so it's time to take your health into your own hands. And that's the kind of content that I think is swirling around this wellness spiral. There's a lot of purity that happens in this space or purity signaling. So this assumption that um natural is better. And I think that's a heuristic or a mental shortcut that people employ. Like the world is so complicated in part because we're using social media. And so the world is so complicated. I'm getting so much information from every direction. Let's just get back to nature. And that can become someone's North Star, even if it's there's not good evidence to support it. Natural isn't always better. Vaccines do make us safer. Beef tallow is not healthier than seed oils. And so it's but it's this really ... I think insidious and appealing space to exist in.

BJ: Yeah. Something I hear a lot is people don't have access to adequate medical care. And that's one of the feeders into the wellness spiral. Is that something that you've seen?

Caitlin: Yes, absolutely. think that our medical system has failed people in a lot of ways. Something that I haven't had the opportunity to look into, but I imagine this these comparisons exist is how big the wellness industry is in countries that do provide adequate medical care. I would imagine that the wellness space still exists there, but that it's not as powerful as it is in a country like ours.

Amanda's Book Ad Text

Amanda King: Hey everyone, this is Amanda King, one of the co-hosts of Stupid Sexy Privacy.

These days, I spend most of my time talking to businesses and clients about search engine optimization.  

But  that's not what this is about. 

I wanted to tell you a little bit about a book I've co-authored with BJ Mendelson called How to Protect Yourself from Fascists and Weirdos.  And the title tells you pretty much everything you would want to know about what's in the book.  

And thanks to our friends at DuckDuckGo,  we'll actually be able to give you this book for free  in 2026.

All you need to do  is go to the website stupidsexyprivacy.com  and sign up to our newsletter.  

Again, that website is stupidsexyprivacy.com and then put your name in the box and sign up for our newsletter.  We'll let you know when the  book  and the  audiobook is ready.

If you want a PDF  copy that's DRM free,  it's yours. And if you want  an MP3 of the new audiobook, also DRM free, you could get that too. 

Now, I gotta get outta here before Bonzo corners me because he doesn't think that SEO is real and I don't have the patience to argue with him. I got a book to finish.

Interview Continued

BJ: Yeah, I totally agree. I'm a big universal health care advocate. know, that's sort of my... We tell people at Super Sexy Privacy to pick one thing. You know, and fight for that one thing because if we all do it, then we can prop these things up, and for the website, it's the postal service.

But for me, know, and this is one of the things I want to talk to you about is I'm a long COVID sufferer. You know, I've lost people to COVID. I think there should be a national memorial for the victims of the pandemic, as well as one for the first responders who were vastly underpaid and underappreciated.

And so I was just thinking about just as a specific example of what we're talking about, you had said to the Indivisible Truth Brigade, "being anti-vaxx is big business." I was hoping you could speak a little to that.

Caitlin: Yeah. So there are a lot of people, whether it's influencers, health coaches, functional medicine doctors, and so on, who really spit anti-vax messages but will gladly sell you supplements to shore up your immune system, maybe help your body recover from say the measles. We really saw this happening during COVID, and now measles is, you know, the respiratory disease du jour, unfortunately. And what they do is they so distrust in the most effective method of preventing disease, which is vaccines are preventing these preventable diseases, I should say. And they stoke fear and fan the flames. And then turn around and sell you the fire extinguisher in the form of a bottle of cod liver oil and vitamin C. And if you subscribe, you can save 5%. And I just find it deplorable. It's, it's so... disgusting. I think that they do this. And so they can't make money off of vaccines, but they can make money off of selling you supplements.

BJ: Yeah, or run for office.

Caitlin: Yes, yes, exactly.

BJ: There's someone, I'm not, we're not, one of our rules is we don't mention specific politicians or just because it's not productive to us. Like we're much more focused on empowering people. Then if, you know, if I start talking about certain people, then people get overwhelmed, right? Or they get disillusions or it becomes part of their identity and they can't separate that that person is hurting them.

But there's one local politician that comes to mind who just ran for office on an anti-vax platform. And so it's not just their own financial wealth that they're trying to build, but it's also like this larger power base.

So, over the last nine years, I guess, particularly during, if we want to put barriers around the COVID years, let's say 2020 to 2025. How much time did you spend fact checking these people?

Caitlin: I mean, an inordinate amount of time. I don't even work exclusively on this topic, on wellness. Sometimes I have to take a break and go write about like food safety and food-borne illness, which feels a lot easier to write about than this. But we do have a project that looks specifically at misinformation. And we spent a lot of time going down these rabbit holes and really trying to figure out what's up from down and trying to not lose our minds in the process. And it's evaluating the evidence, trying to distill it down into actionable information that anyone can use. And it's more than a full-time job. It's several full-time jobs. And so, I have a lot of compassion for people. It's no wonder that people get caught in this spiral because who has this time to spend dozens of hours reading the scientific literature. Talking to experts in the field. Writing. Fact checking, reviewing, rewriting, so on. That's what I do every day. And I only do it because I'm paid to do it. You know, it's it is what I spend all of my time on. And so who else can do that if you're not paid to do it?

BJ: Right. Yeah, that's something we talk about a lot. um So I think we might be close in age or maybe younger to me, but we found with the millennial generation and Gen Z and ones coming up coming up behind it, we're all burned out. We're all like we were to do list to death. Right? Are we all have so many tasks that we have to do because that's how we were raised and that's the environment that we exist in. Because if you don't work hard enough, then somehow you're less valuable than that other person. That whole nonsense. But that's a big thing, right? If you are so burnt out by the time you get to your phone and by the time you open up TikTok, you're going to get this information and you're not going to think twice. Like you're just going to sort of accept it.

Caitlin: Yeah. I think that's absolutely true.

BJ: Let me ask you about the RAND Corporation real quick. Because this is kind of funny. This is now the second conversation I've had in about a month about RAND where the other conversation was ... They actually put out a study about the same year, I believe, where they said, hey, if New York State switched to universal health care coverage, they would actually wind up saving like $4 billion. And I was saying, wow, Rand said that? Really? This is not a progressive organization. This is as conservative as they can get. But that was something that really surprised me. And then there was something you pointed out that also surprised me, which is about the same year that they put out that study for the New York Health Act.

They were also talking about truth decay. They said that 2018 was a year of truth decay. Now, obviously 2025 I wager is a lot more severe than 2018, but I'm just curious about that concept of truth decay and how you think about it and how it might reflect in your work?

Caitlin: I haven't talked to anybody at RAND who wrote that. And I imagine that they are like, wow, we didn't even know what was coming. I think they did to some degree, but you know, the pandemic really just was like a tinderbox for truth decay. so yeah, we, you know, we talked about the nature is good fallacy. We see a lot of these cognitive biases that I think are even stronger now than they were before 2018. Really what we're seeing though is like this coalescence of different voices in the wellness space. So different priorities, ideas and so on, but they have now fallen under the banner of Make America Healthy Again. And I think in many ways they get the problem right.

And I agree largely with a lot of the problem. I think a lot of the solutions aren't quite right that are being proposed by that. But with that Make America Healthy Again movement, it's really it's in the name. It's a call to nostalgia and that there was this time when things were better and that we were healthy. It's this pastoral view of Americana that actually never existed. But certainly pulls people in and then those are sort of stacked on top of this foundation of ridiculing expertise and scientific consensus. At the same time that they're saying that they're going to base policies on gold standard research and it's like this form of double speak that I haven't encountered before.

And it seems, you know, that the only studies that are going to be included in that gold standard research are the studies that they've already concluded to be true. And it feels like we're living in a time where expertise is seen as a conflict of interest. And that's an incredibly dangerous position to take. It feels like living in the upside down. That's what it feels like right now.

BJ: Yeah, you know, I think a lot about the book. We have been harmonized and how Xi Jinping and the Communist Party in China basically used double speak to quell and control the population. saying things like if you were a dissident, you were going against the community. And so I see that a lot in ... this. I don't want to say it's entirely right wing. Because you certainly have the far left also. Look, pretty, I am very liberal. Right? Like I'm probably almost as far as you can go. But even there's people to the left of me that I kind of look and go, wow, that's crazy.

So I don't want to say that's entirely like a right-wing thing, but it does seem to coalesce around this use of nostalgia in order to push a larger agenda, right? Like, and to quell dissent by saying, well, don't you want things to be good again? And the thing I always tell people is, you know, as smart as the framers of the Constitution were. George Washington did think that the bones of dinosaurs belonged to a large man. Right? So there's no... Yeah, I mean, we could have nostalgia for the past, but I mean, they were also sawing limbs off, right? It's in terms of... So I don't know how great it was. But it does seem to come particularly from the Right. And it seems like when... when they, I'm sorry, this is a tangent, but like when they engaged on this project of building an alternative media ecosystem, which is something that they've worked on over the last 50 years. It almost seems like wellness and that industry was like the fuel that they were running on the fund it. And it goes back to the telling people that smoking was good for you actually, right? And it seems like, so have you seen this connection between smoking is good for you actually to... this wellness industry that now exists? Because it seems like it's all part of the same dance.

Caitlin: Yeah, I think it is. I think it's so cool to be a contrarian and it, it's ... it always has been; and I don't actually think it is cool to always be a contrarian. I'm just to be clear. I think that there is a usefulness to being a contrarian at certain times, but I think people elevate that position as right now it's a way to get more followers on social media. You know, there's a term in journalism that "if it bleeds, leads." And that's true in journalism and it's certainly true in social media. And so, yeah, what you're talking about, you know, like, Oh, "smoking is actually good for you." Well, that is a contrarian view. We've been told for decades that smoking is not good for you. So, oh, that's gonna pique my interest. I'm gonna pay more attention to that. And now I'm into your spiral. I think that's exactly how that happens.

BJ: Yeah. Let me ask you, so we've been talking a lot about digital detox and something that scares us is the Wellness Industrial Complex. We do not want any part of that. But at the same time, we have this issue of, ok. If we want to protect people from fascism and weirdos, they need to use their devices less, period. Right? that's one of the ways that we counter what's happening. But there's this concern, right, of when we start talking about things like sleep, one of the things that we're finding is there's all these sleep products out there. There's all these people peddling sleep advice.

And what's scary to us is that it all seems like it's a one size fits all solution, which it's not. Like, and I think you see this in health and wellness, right? Is that everyone is different. So you can't say, get seven to eight hours of sleep. It's like, that depending on how old you are, that might not be possible and you might not even need it. So I know there's this post that you shared with us about sleep supplements and things like melanin and magnesium and tartar juice. And so I'm just kind of curious about using sleep as an example. What would you say some of the specific dangers are that people might encounter when they go down this wellness spiral? Like, let's say for example, they see us talking about the need for sleep, but then they continue on their journey, right? And then they start gravitating to something like melatonin.

Caitlin: Yeah. So I think one of the things to know is that the dietary supplement industry is a largely deregulated space. Regulation of dietary supplements is incredibly lax. It's a very low bar to get something on the market and it's a really high bar to get it removed from the market. And so, you know, I don't want to sound like a pharma shill, but a pharmaceutical has to at least prove that what's on the label is in the bottle as well as some level of safety and efficacy. And that's not true for dietary supplements.

So I think that's something you should be cautious about [with] dietary supplements. And then I think too, like specifically with melatonin ... it is notoriously mislabeled, meaning that what's on the label is not what's in the bottle. And so there was one study that came out a couple of years ago where the researchers bought 25 melatonin gummies off the shelves and only three of them had the amount listed on the label in the bottle. Most had significantly more. And what we know from melatonin is melatonin isn't worthless. A lot of supplements are completely worthless. They don't do anything. But with melatonin, there are, you know, a handful of use cases where melatonin is helpful. And ... but the directive of melatonin is use the absolute lowest dose possible to get an effect. And you can't do that if you don't know what's in what you're taking.

And so just to expand on melatonin a little bit, the people that it might help with are people ... it might help with jet lag. It might help with people who have something called delayed sleep onset disorder, I think that's what it's called. Or delayed sleep phase onset. It's essentially night owls who want to try to get to bed a little bit earlier. Melatonin might help them. And then for people with actual insomnia, which is not what most people with sleep problems have, it might help you get maybe 20 minutes more of sleep per night, which isn't nothing if you're really struggling to get sleep, but it's not, you know, Melatonin should not be taken like a multivitamin. It's not this like, pop my melatonin and then head to bed. That's not what melatonin is or should be. But that is not the way it's advertised.

And so I think you need to be wary of supplements in general. I think most vitamins and minerals, especially if you maybe have a diet where you don't get everything you need. Maybe you're vegan and you want to just ensure that you're getting enough iron. Sure, that's fine. But these ... you particularly see it in the realm of herbals, botanicals, things that fall outside of the vitamin and mineral purview. You're going to see a lot of mislabeling and a lot of risk for contamination in that space. And so it's not something to be taken lightly. It's where "natural is better" meets capitalism. That's dietary supplements. And you shouldn't trust something just because it's quote unquote natural. And you should have a lot of skepticism about these companies because they're making money hand over fist.

BJ: Yeah, I always think of the example of poison ivy, right? That's natural, and that's not good for you.

Caitlin: Yeah! We can think of so many examples where natural is not better. But then to apply it to our lives, like, I understand the the pull toward it, I get pulled toward it too. And then I have to take a step back and, you know, implement a lot of these skills that I've learned and have to keep learning over and over again. It's not easy.

BJ: And that's ... I think that's one that the last thing I wanted to ask you about was, is there anything I didn't ask you that might be worth sharing? Maybe what are, what are some of those skills to, that you use to navigate all this?

Caitlin: I think that there's an appeal to wanting to fact check a lot of this. A lot of the things that you see that, or maybe you are already on the side of doubting all of this and you want to prove to other people why it's wrong. First of all, facts generally don't change people's minds, which is so hard for me to accept as a scientist. As a living, I tell people facts. But facts generally don't change minds. It's having thoughtful, compassionate, heart-to-heart conversations that change minds. But then when you're on, let's say, social media, I generally believe that you should spend less time on social media. But let's say you are in there. I think instead of trying to deduce what are the facts of something are ... right? I think about how the message is being conveyed to you. generally what I believe is that the number one thing you can do is slow down. Slow down the pace of your scrolling of your consumption. Don't share content when you've only read a headline.

I think also ask yourself if are you starting to feel angry or afraid when you are consuming this content? That's probably a sign that you should disengage from that content. I think some of the best accounts in the health and wellness space are very level headed and they take their time to explain concepts. They're not yelling. They're not trying to convince you that you've been lied to for decades. I think ... look for those accounts, let cooler heads prevail, and you're likely to consume things that are probably more factual and probably a little less enticing. That's not what the algorithm wants, but for your own mental health. I think that's probably the best approach.

BJ: Absolutely. And yeah, that's something that we're advocating for. We're gonna spend a lot of time talking about like slow news and just not sharing things to share them. Like that's, I have this list of like 500 things that we're gonna be posting on the website. That's ... you've hit on like definitely three or four. Where can we find you? How can we support the work that you're doing?

Caitlin: Yeah, so you really won't find me on social media unless you follow CSPI. So the Center for Science and the Public Interest, that's where I work. You'll see some videos from me on there from time to time explaining some concepts, just trying to take the temperature down on some of these conversations. But you can follow CSPI at CSPI underscore nutrition action. But also, you know, if our work resonates with you, you can donate to us, you can subscribe to nutrition action where I write.

We run in large part on donations because we don't accept funding from the government or from food companies. And so we're just a bunch of people who care a lot about doing right by consumers genuinely. And we're mad as hell about what's happening in the government; and with these grifters in the wellness space. And we're just trying to to protect people. And so If that resonates with you, we'd love to have you on board with us. Otherwise, you can also just follow us on social media.

BJ: Yeah, I definitely recommend people donate. Like I said, everyone should pick one institution that they prop up. I think what you're doing is definitely one of those institutions that needs to be supported.

Live Read #8: DuckDuckGo Subscription 2

Rosie: There are two economies in America. 

One for the wealthy, and one for you and me. 

And the one for you and me resembles what used to be called a “third-world country.” 

These days, we more politely call them “developing countries.”

And we should!

Because with the way things are going, those developing countries are soon going to kick our ass. 

And offer things like universal healthcare coverage.

So, we know managing your privacy, data security, and anonymity can get expensive.

Which leads to the question: What’s the least you can do, to get the most in protecting yourself from fascists and weirdos?

We’d like to recommend the following:

-Use Signal for all text messaging with your friends, family, co-workers, and fellow protestors. Do NOT use WhatsApp.

-Use Bitwarden to manage your passwords.

And last but not least, get the DuckDuckGo Subscription Plan.

For about $10 a month, or around $100 a year, DuckDuckGo offers a solid VPN, identity theft restoration protection, private access to advanced AI chat models, and a data removal service. 

These four items are often sold separately for way more than $100 a year.

And $100 a year is way less than what you spend on virtually every streaming service.

You can sign up for the DuckDuckGo subscription via the Settings menu in the DuckDuckGo browser, available on iOS, Android, Mac, and Windows, or via the DuckDuckGo subscription website: duckduckgo.com slash subscriptions

The DuckDuckGo subscription is currently available to residents of the U.S., U.K., E.U., and Canada. Feature availability varies by region.

But your piece of mind will not. Because supporting companies like DuckDuckGo is one of the key ways we can defeat fascists and weirdos.

Don’t support companies that support the fascists and weirdos.

Support DuckDuckGo instead.

Stupid Sexy Privacy Outro

Rosie: This episode of Stupid Sexy Privacy was recorded in Hollywood, California.

It was written by BJ Mendelson, produced by Andrew VanVoorhis, and hosted by me, Rosie Tran.

And of course, our program is sponsored by our friends at DuckDuckGo.

If you enjoy the show, I hope you’ll take a moment to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you may be listening.

This won’t take more than two minutes of your time, and leaving us a review will help other people find us.

We have a crazy goal of helping five percent of Americans get 1% better at protecting themselves from Fascists and Weirdos.

Your reviews can help us reach that goal, since leaving one makes our show easier to find.

So, please take a moment to leave us a review, and I’ll see you right back here next Thursday at midnight. 

After you watch Rosie Tran Presents on Amazon Prime, right?