Preview: How Do You Film An Encounter with I.C.E.?

Rebecca Williams, senior strategist for the ACLU’s Privacy and Data Governance Unit, joins me in another preview for an upcoming episode of Stupid Sexy Privacy.

In this clip, Rebecca and I unpack the high‑stakes reality of documenting I.C.E. enforcement encounters, using an incident from the small town in Upstate New York where I used to cover local news.

You can learn more about Rebecca by visiting her here, and I highly recommend you check out the Civic Tech Book Club.

BJ Mendelson, Stupid Sexy Privacy Producer: Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of Privacy Tips, the sister podcast to Stupid Sexy Privacy. I’m your host, BJ Mendelson. Today's show is made possible by our friends at DuckDuckGo. If you enjoy what we do, check out their Privacy Pro subscription plan. It includes an easy‑to‑use VPN, identity‑theft protection and data removal services. More information is at DuckDuckGo.com/pro. (Some features and offers vary by location)

Today I’ll share a preview of our interview with Rebecca Williams, senior strategist for the Privacy and Data Governance Unit at the American Civil Liberties Union. The full interview will run later this year in an upcoming episode of Stupid Sexy Privacy.

Hi, Rebecca. Thank you so much for joining us.

Rebecca Williams, ACLU: My pleasure.

BJ Mendelson: Would you like to introduce yourself?

Rebecca Williams: Absolutely. My name is Rebecca Williams — she/her pronouns. I’m the senior strategist at the ACLU’s Privacy and Data Governance Unit. I should clarify that I’m not the senior strategist for the whole organization. The unit is about three years old. We started as two people and we’re now five. I’m the first person to hold this particular role.

BJ: What has the role been like?

Rebecca Williams: It combines advocacy and implementation. Throughout my career I’ve worked on both. In this role, I try to protect the privacy of our clients, supporters, donors, voters — anyone who interacts with the ACLU. As you can imagine, there’s heightened risk, scrutiny and attention to privacy in the current political climate.

BJ: Coincidentally, the day you and I were supposed to speak I got an email from a local resident in the village of Monroe that speaks to some of what we wanted to discuss. I won’t read the whole thing, but it begins: “Hi, Mayor Dwyer.” For context, Neil Dwyer is the mayor of the Village of Monroe in New York, about an hour north of Manhattan.

The writer said that early the previous morning she was informed there was an I.C.E. presence in the parking lot behind Village Hall. She and her daughter drove there and discovered 10 people standing around, two of whom were women; the rest were men. Both women were masked, as were some of the men, and they were carrying guns. She walked toward them, documenting the presence with her iPhone. A large man with a gun and a mask approached her and asked if she was recording them — which, at that moment, she was not. She feared he would take her phone.

He told her, incredibly, that he was there to protect the U.S. and that she didn’t need to be there. She said she was too terrified to respond. In retrospect she wished she had told him that her real protectors were the Monroe police. She is 81 years old and felt threatened and frightened, as did her daughter.

The email noted I.C.E. has been spotted several times on North Main Street, at Dollar General, Park Avenue, Franklin Avenue, on Stage Road and Lakes Road. The writer attached a short video of the man who approached her, wearing an I.C.E. police vest, and offered the mayor additional photos. I’ll have that video (below) with this interview; it looks like a man who could have dropped out of any shopping mall in America wearing an I.C.E. vest.

(Video courtesy of a concerned Monroe resident who had an encounter with I.C.E. The Mayor of the Village of Monroe, Neil Dwyer, and the Village of Monroe Police Department did not reply to our requests for comment on I.C.E. activities in the Village.)

BJ: You’ve likely been answering questions about people’s rights when filming these encounters. What are your impressions and what can we learn from this?

Rebecca Williams: First, that is a very scary encounter for someone to have. It’s hard to prepare for. Even if you listen to this podcast, in the moment it is difficult to calculate what to do: what are my rights, what do I do? When you’re surprised, it’s hard to know what to do with your device.

At the ACLU, we’ve been focused on protecting not just supporters and clients but also our attorneys. Many of our attorneys encounter these situations or cross borders. When thinking about these scenarios, the more you can think ahead, the better. If you’re listening, think about yourself and spread the word. It’s always healthy to do so.

One strategy information security professionals call risk modeling is useful: figure out your situation, your worst‑case scenario. Are you undocumented? Do you have kids at home you need to get back to? Do you have ACLU attorney friends who can help if you’re detained? We’re all in different situations and you have to think through yours before acting.

Having footage of events can help a lot in cases. The mini cameras and video recorders we carry in our pockets can serve as evidence to support people and justice over the long term. You can also use things other than your phone to record if that helps.

When attending an I.C.E. raid or protest, think about keeping yourself and those around you safe, and consider the trade‑offs. One issue that has arisen is people being told to film what’s happening. That is often good, but you must also consider that filming third parties nearby can produce evidence used against them. Be mindful in heightened situations.

If you take this seriously, seek training and rely on trained people. You don’t have to be a hero; think about which devices to use and what scenarios you might face."

BJ: This episode of Privacy Tips was recorded at the DuckDuckGo podcast studio in Los Angeles. It was written, produced and hosted by BJ Mendelson. Production for Stupid Sexy Privacy included Andrew Van Voorhis, Rosie Tran and Amanda King.

If you enjoyed today’s show, please leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. It will only take two minutes. We have a goal and we need your help: we want 5 percent of Americans to be 1 percent better at protecting themselves from fascists and other threats. Your reviews help other people find the show.

Note to readers: After we recorded our interview with Rebecca, there was another incident involving I.C.E. that was filmed by a Village of Monroe resident. I shared that video with her, and hope to provide some additional information in an upcoming post.

-BJ